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	<title>Comments on: Things that suck</title>
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	<link>http://www.designers-who-blog.com/index.php/archive/things-that-suck/</link>
	<description>A Design blog for designers, photographers, writers, marketeers, etc., who blog</description>
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		<title>By: Design Contests Suck &#124; The Modern Hippy Male</title>
		<link>http://www.designers-who-blog.com/index.php/archive/things-that-suck/comment-page-1/#comment-98232</link>
		<dc:creator>Design Contests Suck &#124; The Modern Hippy Male</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Mar 2009 10:53:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.designers-who-blog.com/?p=166#comment-98232</guid>
		<description>[...] further consideration: http://www.designers-who-blog.com/index.php/archive/things-that-suck/ and [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] further consideration: <a href="http://www.designers-who-blog.com/index.php/archive/things-that-suck/" >http://www.designers-who-blog.com/index.php/archive/things-that-suck/</a> and [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Designers who Blog: Design, Illustration, Photography, Web, Advertising, Branding &#8230;</title>
		<link>http://www.designers-who-blog.com/index.php/archive/things-that-suck/comment-page-1/#comment-350</link>
		<dc:creator>Designers who Blog: Design, Illustration, Photography, Web, Advertising, Branding &#8230;</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Mar 2006 00:12:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.designers-who-blog.com/?p=166#comment-350</guid>
		<description>[...] Part way through the process, the United Way had the unfortunate luck of presenting their spec logo contest to the world, to which I responded with the post ‘Things that suck’. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Part way through the process, the United Way had the unfortunate luck of presenting their spec logo contest to the world, to which I responded with the post ‘Things that suck’. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Administrator</title>
		<link>http://www.designers-who-blog.com/index.php/archive/things-that-suck/comment-page-1/#comment-333</link>
		<dc:creator>Administrator</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Mar 2006 01:06:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.designers-who-blog.com/?p=166#comment-333</guid>
		<description>Erin, Mark and Lief,

Good points all. And pretty much the very same I made when I wrote the United Way. 

&lt;strong&gt; Below is what I sent:&lt;/strong&gt;

“The competition expects designers to invest time and resources purely on speculation. Designing on Spec is not the norm, nor is it an accepted practice in the graphic design industry.”

“Graphic Designers are a valuable part of the communications, branding and marketing mix, trained in solving business communication problems. Your organization&#039;s logo is its face before the public, the visual expression of its culture, mission and scope. Taking away the interaction between Client and Designer by creating a logo competition significantly reduces your chances of finding a suitable mark. It may be “pretty,” but without the research behind it, it&#039;s bound to be off the target. So, in this highly competitive market, why would organizations such as yours feel justified in minimizing the designer&#039;s contribution?”

“Now lets turn around and look at it from a different angle, would your organization request the same of other professional service providers? Would it make sense to ask a group of attorneys to create your legal documents on speculation? Would you think to ask accountants to do your tax returns by the same method? A plumber? I seriously doubt it. The Graphic Artist Guild has set out professional guidelines for art Competitions. Please take the time to read the information found by clicking on the link below. Hopefully, it will shed some light on what your organization is asking of the design community.”

&lt;strong&gt; And their response to me?&lt;/strong&gt;

“As a charity, we do rely heavily on pro bono services from all sectors, and in fact, we do ask lawyers, accountants, photographers, advertising agencies, consultants, website developers, students, and several other professionals, to provide us with their services and expertise without payment.“

And this is why I said that &lt;strong&gt;they just don’t get it &lt;/strong&gt; ... in thinking ... &lt;strong&gt; perhaps they never bothered to read my letter? &lt;/strong&gt;... or ...&lt;strong&gt; bothered to take me seriously? &lt;/strong&gt; All of which raised my ire.

In any case, &lt;strong&gt; it was their response which prompted me to add the United Way logo contest to ‘thinks that suck’.&lt;/strong&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Erin, Mark and Lief,</p>
<p>Good points all. And pretty much the very same I made when I wrote the United Way. </p>
<p><strong> Below is what I sent:</strong></p>
<p>“The competition expects designers to invest time and resources purely on speculation. Designing on Spec is not the norm, nor is it an accepted practice in the graphic design industry.”</p>
<p>“Graphic Designers are a valuable part of the communications, branding and marketing mix, trained in solving business communication problems. Your organization&#8217;s logo is its face before the public, the visual expression of its culture, mission and scope. Taking away the interaction between Client and Designer by creating a logo competition significantly reduces your chances of finding a suitable mark. It may be “pretty,” but without the research behind it, it&#8217;s bound to be off the target. So, in this highly competitive market, why would organizations such as yours feel justified in minimizing the designer&#8217;s contribution?”</p>
<p>“Now lets turn around and look at it from a different angle, would your organization request the same of other professional service providers? Would it make sense to ask a group of attorneys to create your legal documents on speculation? Would you think to ask accountants to do your tax returns by the same method? A plumber? I seriously doubt it. The Graphic Artist Guild has set out professional guidelines for art Competitions. Please take the time to read the information found by clicking on the link below. Hopefully, it will shed some light on what your organization is asking of the design community.”</p>
<p><strong> And their response to me?</strong></p>
<p>“As a charity, we do rely heavily on pro bono services from all sectors, and in fact, we do ask lawyers, accountants, photographers, advertising agencies, consultants, website developers, students, and several other professionals, to provide us with their services and expertise without payment.“</p>
<p>And this is why I said that <strong>they just don’t get it </strong> &#8230; in thinking &#8230; <strong> perhaps they never bothered to read my letter? </strong>&#8230; or &#8230;<strong> bothered to take me seriously? </strong> All of which raised my ire.</p>
<p>In any case, <strong> it was their response which prompted me to add the United Way logo contest to ‘thinks that suck’.</strong></p>
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		<title>By: Leif</title>
		<link>http://www.designers-who-blog.com/index.php/archive/things-that-suck/comment-page-1/#comment-332</link>
		<dc:creator>Leif</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Mar 2006 19:16:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.designers-who-blog.com/?p=166#comment-332</guid>
		<description>As an illustrator I can tell you this kind of well-intentioned mis-step is something we also face all the time.  I think the examples given comparing graphic arts professionals to those in other fields should more than clarify the point for the administrators at the United Way.  I suspect they had the best of intentions... many of us can remember winning a contest in highschool - or even in art school - to design a logo or draw something and seeing our work in print for the first time.  With community based organizations, even one as big as UW, one can easily imagine how they might have felt this was a great idea.

Education and communication are the key to ensuring our professionalism is valued and respected.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As an illustrator I can tell you this kind of well-intentioned mis-step is something we also face all the time.  I think the examples given comparing graphic arts professionals to those in other fields should more than clarify the point for the administrators at the United Way.  I suspect they had the best of intentions&#8230; many of us can remember winning a contest in highschool &#8211; or even in art school &#8211; to design a logo or draw something and seeing our work in print for the first time.  With community based organizations, even one as big as UW, one can easily imagine how they might have felt this was a great idea.</p>
<p>Education and communication are the key to ensuring our professionalism is valued and respected.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark (Sprtek)</title>
		<link>http://www.designers-who-blog.com/index.php/archive/things-that-suck/comment-page-1/#comment-331</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark (Sprtek)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Mar 2006 06:17:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.designers-who-blog.com/?p=166#comment-331</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m also glad to hear they&#039;ll meet with the RGD, and I hope it&#039;s soon because they&#039;re going to continue to raise the ire of designers and tarnish their image up until they withdraw this disrespectful contest.
I also hope this will serve as a lesson to those in the United Way who dreamt up this harebrained contest without consulting the right people.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m also glad to hear they&#8217;ll meet with the RGD, and I hope it&#8217;s soon because they&#8217;re going to continue to raise the ire of designers and tarnish their image up until they withdraw this disrespectful contest.<br />
I also hope this will serve as a lesson to those in the United Way who dreamt up this harebrained contest without consulting the right people.</p>
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		<title>By: Erin</title>
		<link>http://www.designers-who-blog.com/index.php/archive/things-that-suck/comment-page-1/#comment-330</link>
		<dc:creator>Erin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Mar 2006 00:51:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.designers-who-blog.com/?p=166#comment-330</guid>
		<description>Michael -

I do understand that the United Way, as well as other non-profits, have a lot of work done pro bono, which helps them a great deal. The reason this particular contest is so insulting to designers is because you essentially placed a free-for-all call for work. That makes it spec work, and not pro bono. There is a great deal of difference between this kind of open call for free work and asking a lawyer (ie, ONE particular lawyer) or other professional to provide services for a lower rate or for free. You don&#039;t place open calls for medical assistance or legal briefs or plumbing work - why should that be different for design?

Branding involves a significant amount of work, and while I&#039;m sure there are plenty of good designers who are still students or just starting out, something of this magnitude (a 50th anniversary of such a universally known charitable group) is not something to take lightly. I can understand your desire to include the community that you serve, but there are better ways to do that.

I am pleased to hear that you are going to meet with the RGD, and I hope your meeting is useful for both parties in this situation and future endeavors.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Michael -</p>
<p>I do understand that the United Way, as well as other non-profits, have a lot of work done pro bono, which helps them a great deal. The reason this particular contest is so insulting to designers is because you essentially placed a free-for-all call for work. That makes it spec work, and not pro bono. There is a great deal of difference between this kind of open call for free work and asking a lawyer (ie, ONE particular lawyer) or other professional to provide services for a lower rate or for free. You don&#8217;t place open calls for medical assistance or legal briefs or plumbing work &#8211; why should that be different for design?</p>
<p>Branding involves a significant amount of work, and while I&#8217;m sure there are plenty of good designers who are still students or just starting out, something of this magnitude (a 50th anniversary of such a universally known charitable group) is not something to take lightly. I can understand your desire to include the community that you serve, but there are better ways to do that.</p>
<p>I am pleased to hear that you are going to meet with the RGD, and I hope your meeting is useful for both parties in this situation and future endeavors.</p>
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		<title>By: Administrator</title>
		<link>http://www.designers-who-blog.com/index.php/archive/things-that-suck/comment-page-1/#comment-329</link>
		<dc:creator>Administrator</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Mar 2006 00:05:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.designers-who-blog.com/?p=166#comment-329</guid>
		<description>Michael,

Thank-you for your comment.

Please let us know when you&#039;ve made a decision so I can clarify here ... as well as take the United Way logo contest off my personal list of &#039;things that suck&#039;. 

Cat</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Michael,</p>
<p>Thank-you for your comment.</p>
<p>Please let us know when you&#8217;ve made a decision so I can clarify here &#8230; as well as take the United Way logo contest off my personal list of &#8216;things that suck&#8217;. </p>
<p>Cat</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Fuhrmann</title>
		<link>http://www.designers-who-blog.com/index.php/archive/things-that-suck/comment-page-1/#comment-328</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Fuhrmann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Mar 2006 21:51:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.designers-who-blog.com/?p=166#comment-328</guid>
		<description>As Director of Marketing for United Way of Greater Toronto I just wanted to post a comment here to let you know that we have been contacted by a number of Graphic Design Associations  about our 50th anniversary logo contest. We have heard the concerns that these organizations have expressed on behalf of their members in the graphic design community and appreciate the feedback.

Firstly, let me express that in no way and at no time was the intent to demean the graphic design profession. United Way and other charities are appreciative of the work done  for us  by  the many advertsing agencies, designers, copywriters and other artists in creative fields. Their pro bono support allows us to use the funds  raised from donors to  help people who need it most  -  the homeless, seniors, youth, newcomers and victims of v iol ence.

The primary intention of this contest was to engage the community at large in the development of our 50th anniversary logo for the very reason that it is the community who helps us to reach our goals, and for whom we work. As well, we wanted to provide an opportunity for artists  -  both professional  as well as students  -  to showcase their talent to some  industry leaders and engage them with our work in a way that was meaningful to them.

We were unaware of the present stand regarding this type of &quot;spec&quot; work taken by the professional associations that represent your community. We have arranged to meet with a representative from the Associations of Registered Graphic Designers of Ontario to  fully understand the issue and how in future we can  better engage the creative talents of the graphic design community in the city.

Thank you again for your feedback and support.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As Director of Marketing for United Way of Greater Toronto I just wanted to post a comment here to let you know that we have been contacted by a number of Graphic Design Associations  about our 50th anniversary logo contest. We have heard the concerns that these organizations have expressed on behalf of their members in the graphic design community and appreciate the feedback.</p>
<p>Firstly, let me express that in no way and at no time was the intent to demean the graphic design profession. United Way and other charities are appreciative of the work done  for us  by  the many advertsing agencies, designers, copywriters and other artists in creative fields. Their pro bono support allows us to use the funds  raised from donors to  help people who need it most  &#8211;  the homeless, seniors, youth, newcomers and victims of v iol ence.</p>
<p>The primary intention of this contest was to engage the community at large in the development of our 50th anniversary logo for the very reason that it is the community who helps us to reach our goals, and for whom we work. As well, we wanted to provide an opportunity for artists  &#8211;  both professional  as well as students  &#8211;  to showcase their talent to some  industry leaders and engage them with our work in a way that was meaningful to them.</p>
<p>We were unaware of the present stand regarding this type of &#8220;spec&#8221; work taken by the professional associations that represent your community. We have arranged to meet with a representative from the Associations of Registered Graphic Designers of Ontario to  fully understand the issue and how in future we can  better engage the creative talents of the graphic design community in the city.</p>
<p>Thank you again for your feedback and support.</p>
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